Mayor Jordan Hess We will move on to the other item of committee reports and then we'll be back in our regular order. You're welcome to hang around or not. We've got lots of public hearings after that too, if you're interested. We'll just, we'll just stand in a brief recess. We’ll, we'll recess until 7:15 p.m. We will be in order. We will move on to our next item of committee reports. This is our Higgins Avenue Corridor Planning Project. I'm going to start with, without objection, I'm going to deviate from our order a bit. I'm going to start with, with public comment on this item and then we will come back to our standard order. Any, any public comment on the Higgins Avenue Corridor Planning Process?
Amy McQuilkin Good evening, my name is Amy McQuilkin. I operate a business I started in Ward 3 called Betty's Divine. I have been doing that for 18 years. I practically call Higgins Avenue my home. I'm here tonight to thank the majority vote that happened recently in the committee for the preferred concept of the Higgins Avenue changes. I have been part of the process over the last two years. I'm an engaged business owner. I care about my community. I care about safety. I also operate a business and understand that economic prosperity and safety do not need to be opponent. I have seen many opportunities to participate, to engage, to look at graphics, ask questions. Engage Missoula, I find to be more entertaining than Instagram, so thank you for that. I also honor the hundreds of hours of work that knowledgeable staff of our city have put into this, public servants, educated consultants, and also business owners and community members alike. I've seen many people at these meetings, seeing comments, and there has been no lack of engagement despite what has been coming up in the recent mix. So, with that, I will keep this brief. I like this plan for many reasons but the main one is I am excited that there's a vision for Missoula’s future and not an attachment to a past that no longer serves us. Higgins Avenue I see as a destination. It is a place that serves and especially in my area of the Hip Strip, it serves the senior center, it serves the high school, it serves neighbors, children, children going to middle school, people walking, people doing business, it's a wonderful place, it is a destination, it is not a highway for cars. I, I see this change to be beneficial for everybody. My experience during COVID, no sorry, we won't talk about that. My experience during the Higgins Bridge rehab, when we went down to two lanes was actually some of my best years of business. So, I am excited to see what the preferred concept does for our community. Thank you.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you. Thanks for waiting for the item tonight. Any additional public comment in the room? All right, come on up.
John Frederickson Hi, I'm John Frederickson and I live on Brooks Street. I, I disagree with the previous speaker. In my limited opinion, the Higgins Avenue Bridge needs to stay two traffic lanes. The bridge was designed for the bikes to be on the sidewalk. The sidewalk is 12 feet wide on both sides. The lanes are narrow as they are. Reducing it to two lanes, in my limited opinion, is not appropriate. There are four bridges across the river. Pedestrians have one bridge, pedestrians and bikers have one bridge underneath Madison Street. There's also the pedestrian bike bridge over at the university that's used exclusively by pedestrians and bikers. I think the 12 feet sidewalks on both sides the Higgins Avenue Bridge is adequate for the bikers and the pedestrians, and I would suggest you leave it as is.
Micki Frederickson Yeah, so, we did this little thing. Well, no wait with me, so, we're like. So, I’m, I’m five feet and John is six, so, so put your hand out. So, it's like, this is what we're looking at. This is what we currently have, you have a path that's wide enough for the bikes and the pedestrians. So, we are not, you know we're just not understanding why we can't leave the street as is . I think one of the letters to the editor said if it's not broken leave it and I can tell you from living three blocks from that intersection, I know that you can do lots and lots of tests and surveys and your, your architects and all your people are counting numbers and you know, however long it's going to be for a wait but I can tell you where I live, I see that traffic backed up. I go home at five o'clock and there's red lights like a couple of box blocks down the street. I don't understand how you can take Brooks and Higgins and have them combined to be one lane of traffic. I just, I don't understand. I think it's a big mistake. Thank you.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you. Can we get your name as well for the record?
Micki Frederickson Micki Frederickson.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you. Anyone else in the room tonight? All right, I'm going to go to online comments. I have two telephone commenters, the first one, phone number ending in 73. It looks like you’re unmuted.
Jessica Tuberty Hi there.
Mayor Jordan Hess Yes, hello.
Jessica Tuberty Yeah. Hi, my name is Jessica Tuberty. I am a private citizen calling in in support of the preferred concept. I'm excited and grateful for the four to three conversion so that I can bike, walk, or drive whatever the mood I happen to have that day suits me and arrive downtown safe, and ready to spend my money and engage with my community. I think that people feel good when they can choose a path to downtown and know that when they're in their car, it is a predictable, well-managed traffic situation for all modes. The evidence is really strong that these types of conversions protect car pedestrian and car bicycle interactions, accidents, and even fatalities, so way, way down and there's, that's just wonderful for everyone whether you're the car driver or the cyclist or the pedestrian. And so, I think that is great for people who visit, who maybe don't understand where they're going. I think it's great for people of all abilities or people who are differently abled and I think it is a wonderful change for families who would like to take their entire family at multi-age through Higgins to get to downtown and back. The second thing I think is really important, having driven, walked, and cycled on other four to three conversions is I appreciate the vibrancy that this brings to the business. People call it a postcard street and I think there's something to that. It is a gift to every business. It is a gift to the people of the community to get to be part of that and to see the energy that people who are safely cycling and walking and driving through bring to the space, and so, I think it's brilliant. I'm proud that I live in Missoula. I'm proud that people look at these different options and as I say, I think the most important thing is number one we know in other communities it is safer for everyone, all most arrive safer. We know from other communities if you've experienced it that it's beautiful. It is a beautiful change to a street and then I'll just add the third thing for any of you all who have tried to turn left when the sign says don't turn, the idea of having a predictable left turn lane on Higgins at all times a day is delightful. Thank you so much for hearing public comment, for all the hours of work that the city has put in. I have observed and interacted with the outreach activities over many months and even years and I think this is a decision that has been very thoughtfully examined and perhaps will be uncomfortable in thinking of, but I think enjoyable and something to be really proud of when it's complete. So, thank you for your time and good luck.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you Ms. Tuberty. And I have Mr. Larson next.
Matt Larson Yes, Matt Larson, Ward 3. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I believe there's a quote, the distance between theory and practice is much closer in theory than it is in practice, and I think this is going to be an example of this, should it be passed. We're taking away all the parking from the Hip Strip. We're essentially pricing out all the other businesses that have parking right now, and all the residents, and this is part and parcel for the City Council's plan to just raise everybody's cost basis in the, in the Hip Strip. This is totally going to destroy the Hip Strip, which is why I think you're not seeing very many if, if at all. I think we just we've only seen one person, one Hip Strip owner support this. I don't know of any other Hip Strip owners, and I live in the Hip Strip and know many of the businesses personally. I can't see any of them supporting this except the one that already doesn't have parking on the Hip Strip, so, it's a, it's an issue. People are disabled, they need to have their parking to participate and it's one of one of these issues that we can you know, use, use the old, the age-old saying like others were saying before me, if it's not broken don't, don't fix it and this is going to bottleneck downtown more. Downtown has already been bottlenecked with the other bridges and it's not really making downtown safer. As far as pedestrian versus vehicle accidents, I can speak from personal experience to that, being hit by two cars downtown, but that's neither here nor there I guess, just another citizen speaking into the echo chamber here. Thanks for allowing me to talk.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you sir. We have another phone participant, phone number ending in 66. And yes, we can hear you.
[caller 66] Okay, great, thank you. All right, I’m a resident of Ward 3 as well and I'm calling in support of the proposed plan. To start off, I'd just like to quote an op-ed written by Jeremy Keane, the Public Works Director for the City of Missoula. He said, “that our recommended design is expected to reduce crashes by as much as 50%, cars will always be a welcome and necessary part of downtown, but by prioritizing space for pedestrians, bikes, transit, turn lanes and on-street parking, the Higgins quarter will be safer, provide better access to downtown businesses and parking structures, and often more transportation choices for getting downtown.” I read this op-ed and was in support of the plan because it sounds like we're gonna get more people walking around our downtown, looking in the storefronts, and supporting our local businesses. There's expanded bike claims to help people commute in a more sustainable way and reduce our carbon emissions some while also making a healthier citizenry for Missoula, and also just making downtown a more beautiful vibrant place too by having more pedestrians and bikers. I think it, it will be a more lively feeling in those summer evenings we all know. So, just like those new bike lanes down near the break are awesome, they're all pretty and gardened up, I'm sure those, I think that these new changes will hopefully be a part of that Downtown Missoula that I know and love in a few years’ time too. So, I'm calling in support on account of the safety concerns, as well as the more vibrant downtown we'll have people looking in the business in the storefronts and to be able to bike and walk more. So thank you.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you sir. I don't see any additional public comments online or, or in the room. So, with that, I will return back to questions from Council and, and before I do that, give an opportunity for Mr. Wilson if you have any additional comments outside of us outside of answering questions. Yeah? Sorry go right ahead, are you just questions?
Aaron Wilson No, I can, I can….
Mayor Jordan Hess Okay, yeah if you want to, if you have…..
Aaron Wilson I have a couple of quick….It’s so unusual to be here in person, it's kind of nice to see everyone, everyone's face. I just wanted to add. I don't have a lot of additional info to present, but just wanted to clarify a few things and just sort of reiterate the purposes of this project and what we're trying to do because I think there has been a lot of confusion and a lot of different topics flying out there. So, the first thing I want to state is that you know this is a hard, I've said this on Wednesday last week that this is a hard decision, you know it requires change. There's not enough room to do everything for everyone and so what we set out to do is try to evaluate all the pros and cons of different changes and try to pick a concept for the corridor that works for all of those different goals including safety, including business activity, including accessibility, different circulation, movements including motor vehicle and parking. All of those things were factored into our decision making and we tried to do as much research and analysis as possible on all of those. So, as I said on Wednesday, we can make an informed decision based on all of that evidence and all the input and hopefully you had some time to read through the comments that we, we sent along. As I said, I think we had 160 or 170 pages worth of public outreach results from the last two years of conversation, so we've been talking about this a lot. We've talked to a lot of different people and not surprisingly, there are a lot of different views and a lot of different opinions and, and some middle ground but you know we can't accommodate every interest on this corridor regardless of what decision we make. So, the first point of clarification I want to make is that this project started not as a bridge redesign; this started as really catalyzed by the bridge and the, the facilities that were provided there and how much they highlighted the, the lack of connectivity on either side of the bridge and the conflicts we were creating by having a good facility on, on Bear Tracks bridge that then turned into you know bike lanes disappearing or a lack of adequate pedestrian safety or accessibility. And so, that, this didn't start as a way to how can we change the bridge design now that we've just built it, it was what can we do on either side of the bridge to create a consistent corridor from one end for from Brooks all the way to the, the end of the x's. And, and so that was what we set out to do what we were proposing, in terms of lanes and configuration on the bridge is really in my mind sort of the least critical aspect of this. You know, I think there's a lot of room to do a lot of different things with that available space, but what's really critical is how you connect that then along through south of the, the river and north. So, this, this is not a primarily a bridge redesign project; it is looking at the corridor as a whole. So, that's the first piece. The other one is that you know we are trying to accommodate all the different modes, so for example on the highway 12 section which goes from Brooks to Fifth and Sixth, we intentionally made design decisions that preserved capacity where we're seeing, that's where we see the highest volumes on, on Higgins is taking that Brooks to Fifth and Sixth and so, we preserved those right turn lanes for that capacity of people traveling the highway 12 corridor knowing that that's where we have the highest volumes. We also have had a lot of questions about air quality, and you know are there impacts from idling, and will that increase our air quality concerns, and I can assure we did look at that, as we have air quality issues. As an MPO, we're required to evaluate those things you know as a region and on individual projects and what we found and the way we're viewing this project is that yes there may be some small additional CO2 emissions that come from based on existing volumes if nothing changes based on that additional congestion, but looking forward into the future, we're going to have far more in savings by allowing people to take more sustainable modes and also just through vehicle emissions technology. Really most of our air quality improvements in the valley have not come from free-flowing traffic, they've come from vehicle technology, wood stove issues, reducing the amount of vehicle miles traveled, things like particulate matter which primarily come from dust and tire wear, not from tailpipe emissions, that's where we see the most air quality issues locally, and so this project doesn't impact those. In fact, long term, I think it makes it better because we're providing opportunities for people to take other modes that don't contribute to those air quality issues. So, so on that side, I think we're making a decision that we would, we're making a recommendation that wouldn't impact air quality in the long term and in fact has a lot of opportunity to make it better. You know, safety has been, there's been a lot of conversation around safety and how does this compare to other corridors and I would just say that we it's often really hard to compare one corridor to another because you have to look at things like crash rates, you have to look at the geometrics of the corridor, you know what what's happening at the intersection, who's involved in those, those crashes, are they primarily property damage are there injuries and what we found on this corridor is that there are crashes. I think there were about almost 500 or 600 crashes over the, the last 10 years so average of 55 or 60 a year, at least 12 of those end in injuries over the course of that time period. Most of those crashes are actually vehicle, they're not predominantly bicycle and pedestrian crashes, although what we found is that bicycle and pedestrians are the most vulnerable road users, so if they are involved in a crash, they're much more likely to be injured, much more likely to be in a severe crash and so there's a benefit to those users to providing increased safety and preventing them from getting in the crash because they're much more likely to be injured. Related to parking, I know we've sort of had a lot of you know questions about how many parking spaces are we losing, where, and it's sort of hard to answer that with a definitive number because it really depends on the final engineer design, but we know we're losing generally between 15 and 20 spaces. However, what we heard from the public in all of our meetings is that we could mitigate that impact through improved management, particularly south of the river, that the way people are utilizing parking could be managed to easily mitigate those additional impacts. And what we've seen is, we, we have I think the stat I saw was somewhere around 3,000 housing units in the downtown or in the downtown area and you don't see traffic increasing commensurate with, with or parking needs increasing at the same rate as the number of housing units. And so, there, there's an efficiency there that the more housing needs, you get down there people are, are biking and walking and you could have more activity without the need for those parking spaces. So, there's sort of multiple ways that we can address that potential loss. Although when we're making a decision on preferred designs, parking was one of the higher criteria. We had a couple of, at least one preferred alternative that removed all parking and that basically came off the table immediately, that that wasn't a viable alternative because of the impacts to parking and so we tried to be thoughtful about that. You know, the other thing I wanted to just add as a, as an anecdote I guess, we met with some advocates and folks who were really involved in disability advocacy and thinking about navigating, particularly for people who have visual disabilities and there's a lot, we got some good feedback, some you know design decisions that we can tweak to make it, the design easier for people to navigate but also I received the feedback that this provides a lot of benefit in terms of reducing travel lanes. If you think, you know if you have a vision disability, crossing two lanes of traffic going in the same direction is much more dangerous than a single lane. So, again, for the, the user of the street that are the most vulnerable, we have a lot of benefits, and this will make downtown and Hip Strip more accessible. And then finally, we're continuing to work with, with MDT. We had a really good meeting today with, with staff from the, the state to go over concerns that they had. They had some creative ideas of ways that we can start to both track the impacts of this project, think about things like signal, signal technology and having signal performance measures that that could allow us to have more of a, be more responsive to traffic patterns and, and help increase the efficiency of our street system with this design or without. So, that's something we'll be looking into I think city-wide, but particularly in this project could have, have some real benefit. And I think, we're getting close to the point where you know we continue to move forward with the state on this project and I think we're close to having their, their support or they're really interested to see what you know we want as a community and being able to support us in that. So, that's our hope, we'll continue working towards that. I think those are all the things I would want to add, but again I have my whole slideshow here, so if there are any questions we can go into as much detail or, or data as, as we'd like but sometimes it's hard for us we get so far into the weeds of all the data, we lose kind of the big picture that I think we've heard some, some of the proponents or opponents on this project so…
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you and that’s Aaron Wilson for the record. Any questions from Council members? Ms. Vasecka.
Alderperson Vasecka Don’t sit down….First of all, I wanted to thank you for compiling all those questions that I asked you last time and getting those to me very quickly, so I appreciate that. And also, I was wondering if fire and police have given their opinions on this? I'm sorry if I missed it in a presentation, but my concern is with I mean granted it's not I mean it's not my ideal way to get across the river, but in reality, we only have so many rivers there are so many bridges to go across the river so if there is an emergency and police or fire do need to get across, I'm concerned about their ability to do so.
Aaron Wilson Yeah, so, we did talk to police and fire. Police response is they thought the design wouldn't impact their ability to get to the corridor. In fact, they felt like it would make it safer and that you know makes their job easier. Fire had some concerns about some of the specific intersection designs [background interference] ….. I don’t think that was mine. Okay, fire had specific questions about some of the curb extensions and how, how far they extend into the intersection and how, how that allows them to make turns, but all of that is designable and what is we get into engineering and we can accommodate that and just make sure we're looking at the right vehicle that they have in downtown and that they can make those movements, but as far as getting across the bridge, you know, we would have more room for emergency vehicles. So, we have a slightly wider buffer in the middle between those two travel lanes, plus if that's the design that that moves forward having the, the buffered bike lane that would allow vehicles to pull off even further. And so, I think you could clear that traffic much easier than what's there today, where you have two lanes of traffic, if those are full, there's really nowhere for an emergency vehicle to go or those vehicles. They can't really get out of the road, so you have to wait for them to sort of filter their way through and get through and I've recently saw this happen on, on Brooks where, I believe it was police was trying to get through Brooks. There was nowhere for the cars to go, both lanes were full, and so, it just makes it harder to get through, you have to wait for all the cars to get off to the side of the road. So, I think our design, at least over the bridge accommodates that. You have the two-way left turn lane that allows some additional space to, to get around vehicles. So, I think nothing we're doing should impact the emergency response.
Alderperson Vasecka Okay, great. Thank you.
Mayor Jordan Hess Mr. Nugent.
Alderperson Mike Nugent Thank you Mr. Mayor. Yep, Ms. Vasecka, I think that’s a good question and, and we kind of put that on Aaron's plate last week too. You know, that's a follow-up to the question I'm about to ask you. You've talked a couple times about final engineering and a lot of the questions we've asked; we don't have answers for. Does the final engineered plan have to come back to Council for approval?
Aaron Wilson Not typically, at least, I don't know that we always bring things back as the final, but it goes through the City for review and all of our city agencies review that, so police review that, fire, parks, public projects go through the same process that private development does and it's certainly something we could come back and provide updates on as we go through. Certainly, if we get something like a federal grant to do a project like this, I think the more you know input and having those opportunities you know are worthwhile. And there are certain stages you know you want to try to get comments in as early as possible because as you get close to a final design, making major changes can be really hard and expensive. So, we want to sort of start to narrow our comments as we get further along in the design process, but I think that's something we could certainly work through and I'd be happy to bring it back and present those. Though, as we get further into the engineering design, when we get to that phase.
Alderperson Mike Nugent Okay, I just think that there have been lots of questions where the answer was, we'll figure that out engineering…..
Aaron Wilson Yeah….
Alderperson Mike Nugent So, I mean, that concerns me a little bit….. I'm going to ask you one more question for engineering. I've had a lot of people reach out who generally support the idea, but have specific intersections or things they're concerned about and one of the questions I heard today was the intersection of Higgins and Brooks and specifically if you are leaving downtown and going down Higgins, we're going to have a lane, we believe, that goes straight down Higgins and we're going to lane the turns right to go to Brooks, and there's the bike lane and the bike lane, if I remember right, from the conceptual drawing feeds back into the lane earlier on that block. Does that sound about right? Can you walk us through that? Because the concern was, we going to set up bike versus car conflict where we've got a green light a green arrow on the bike strip.
Aaron Wilson Yeah, and this is one of the areas where we had some challenges in the design to, we wanted to maintain that capacity and that right turn onto Brooks, as part of the highway 12 corridor, but you have the issue there with a dedicated right turn lane, what do you do with the bike facilities that you don't have that right turn conflict? And so, what the design currently proposes is having, continuing the protected bike lane all the way up to Brooks and it's like the cyclists would cross with pedestrians in sort of the same space, but we could use a dedicated bike signal. So, similar, we have one in the state that's currently in operation it's on South Avenue where the trail crosses diagonally, so it's a signal head specifically for cyclists that would turn green when that right turn is either stopped or there they have a yield. Similar to what you have with a pedestrian, you have the same issue if you're trying to cross Higgins today with that, that right turn from Brooks on to or from Higgins on to Brooks and so that bike signal would stop cyclists when you have that right turn freely operating and then you would get a green phase for both bikes and pedestrians to get, get out and cross safely while that that right turn is either stopped or yielding to those, those movements. And we do this, we have the same issue at Sixth where we're maintaining some capacity to turn right from Brooks onto Sixth for that highway 12 connection again and we do the same, have that bike signal. So, we're, we're stopping cyclists when there's right turning movements that would conflict and making sure that that operates safely. So, there's a little bit of trade-off there, trying to maintain that capacity but also making it safe.
Mayor Jordan Hess Additional questions? Ms. Jones.
Alderperson Jones Sure just to touch on a couple of items that you, you referenced in your, your, you’re talking tonight. W when I first talked with our transportation staff back in 2016/2017, the emphasis has always been on safety, because from my point of view the Hip Strip is not safe, not, certainly not safe for bikes, really not very safe for cars either and because of that it's been a huge deterrent so that we hardly have any bikes on the Hip Strip and they're in the surrounding neighborhoods, which is okay to a degree but there's a lot of uncontrolled intersections and it's a bit of a free-for-all. And by getting everybody on to safe bike lanes, my focus has always been on making the Hip Strip safe and then the section north of the bridge safe, and I feel like a lot of the conversation in the last several weeks has been, wait a minute, the bridge four lanes, two lanes, what's going on and that is really, I think you referenced this, but I just wanted you to, to touch upon it again is the emphasis is on the blocks south and north of the bridge. We do have a beautiful Bridge with a lot of breathing room now, which is wonderful, but we want to make that bridge safe for when it intersects with the blocks north and south of the bridge and there is a lot of traffic and traffic engineering and analysis and psychology that goes into how people drive, and we have to take that information and create the right design, so we don't have unintended consequences. So, am I saying what you were saying, just using my words and yeah?
Aaron Wilson Yes. So, there’s the consistent and continuity of the corridor. So, if you go from three lanes to four back to three, you're creating bottlenecks that, that can be an issue, people are trying, you know not merging in the right places or you could potentially have offset intersections where the lanes don't line up on either end of the intersection, which creates issues you know think of this time of year when you can't see the striping knowing where to go as a vehicle or if you're not familiar and, and we see that a lot in places that don't have…. I mean, even on Fifth and Sixth today, when it snows, the travel lane shifts over generally into the bike lane, which I think is people's natural reaction to but when you can't see the, the striping at sort of people choose their own path to some degree. So, all of those issues, I think play into wanting to have a consistent corridor. The other thing I would say about the bridge is that you know prior to construction, we were seeing two to three thousand pedestrians a day cross, cross that bridge. I think we're seeing quite a bit more now just based on anecdotal events. That, that bridge is frequently full of people, especially in the summer and during busy months. And so, so creating some additional separation of modes could be good. I think it could function certainly well with, with cyclists and pedestrians combined. It would, you know a pedestrian and cyclist conflicts tend to happen at a slower speed and we don't see a lot of injuries or you know people get nervous about it, but we're not seeing people killed because they were hit by a cyclist or vice versa, so that separation is really important and we'd want to continue that regardless of what design we have, but, but really the issue is how do you transition when you're coming off the bridge? And we want it to be consistent for all the modes, we want it to be safe, and we want there to be predictability. So, today when you when there is no facility for, for a particular mode, they choose to do whatever they think is going to be the most safe which might not be and that might not be what the, the driver or pedestrian or cyclist is thinking the other one will do. And so, you want that consistency predictability and that's what really gets the, the safety benefits.
Mayor Jordan Hess Additional questions? Mr. Nugent.
Alderperson Mike Nugent Sorry to ask two sets of questions, my apologies. Two more questions just to kind of follow up on the engineering. How, how long will the engineering portion take, do you anticipate?
Aaron Wilson That’s a good question. I think usually, I mean not being an engineer, I've worked on a number of these projects, but I think generally six months to a year would be like the longest. It depends on the, the funding source and you know do we have money available to build the project? You know, we could make it go faster than, you know if there's if there's no funding for construction, sometimes the engineering takes longer because there's no immediate need but…..
Alderperson Mike Nugent So, would your intention, I know that the intention is to apply for a grant. So, would the intention be to start engineering immediately or wait until you get grant approval to start that process?
Aaron Wilson I think we would wait. I mean we don't have funding currently programmed for engineering and so we would likely hold off, you know, hope for, pursue those grants. If we don't get the grant funding then I think we need to figure out another way to fund this, but that just sort of extends that further out so….
Alderperson Mike Nugent One quick followup?
Mayor Jordan Hess Go ahead.
Alderperson Mike Nugent And I know this is probably not a question you can answer, but you're standing up there….So, if, if the approval was contingent on reviewing the final engineering, do you think that would reduce the city's chances to be successful in the grant application?
Aaron Wilson Well, if we apply for a grant, there, the, if we get a grant award, there's an expectation that we deliver the project that is pitched in the grant, so, there are certain things we can change. We know we haven't done the final engineering or really any of it, we just have a concept. So, things like specific intersection designs and curb, curb extension, turning movements, all of those kinds of details are, are generally ironed out and I think there's an expectation that that would be figured out in the engineering phase, but sort of the overall concept, if it were to change dramatically, I think would be an issue and, and put those grant funds at risk. So, there's an expectation you're going to deliver the project that you're proposing in the grant but that said, all of those really specific details that we haven't figured out, we can certainly do over the course of that, and it shouldn't impact the grant funding. I think a good example is the, the Mullan BUILD project. You know, there, that was really just a concept at the time and, and we got partial funding in part because it was just a concept and it wasn't really ironed out like this project or some others, so a lot of those details were determined over the course of the design of that project and, and we did a lot of public outreach in terms of public meetings, you know looking at those designs at every stage of the way and providing feedback to Council and others. So, I think that could be a model of doing that level of public outreach but still wanting to move the project forward quickly.
Mayor Jordan Hess And I’d suggest that we have a technical process and a policy process and our, our technical and, and professional process is, is the engineering process and our policy process has been the adoption of you know an award-winning complete streets policy. We have a great complete streets policy that sets direction for staff. We have our vision zero policy that sets direction for staff, and we have a variety of other things in that sphere that really guide design decisions based on Council policy. So, I'd suggest we, and I think we could also lean on a model that has Council involvement. Russell Street had a technical design committee and a, and a policy committee, so there was a group of, of people that included one City Council member, the Mayor, someone from MDT, I believe, and there…. but it was a, it was a structure that was set that had you know a conduit back to Council, as well as, you know not making design a, a political process.
Aaron Wilson Yeah.
Mayor Jordan Hess Any additional questions? Mr. Nugent.
Alderperson Mike Nugent I don’t have any questions; I want to talk about in a little bit…..
Mayor Jordan Hess Let's come back to that in just a moment…. I have, I have one question myself. Can you talk a little bit about the conditions that exist when we have minimum widths next to minimum widths and how that impacts the safety and flow and operations of Higgins?
Aaron Wilson Yeah, I mean it creates a lot of issues. It's one of the things we see in the crash, so like sideswipe crashes where someone's trying to pass too closely, particularly in the winter where there isn’t sufficient room to plow the streets and, and provide that width for two, two travel lanes. There, there's also an issue of you know, transit tends to be the largest vehicle and so transit struggles to operate on those smaller than standard streets just because they're wider and so it just creates a lot of, of that side friction and for vehicles and conflicts trying to pass and it makes it harder to maintain. I think it makes it harder for emergency access, there's just less room for people to get out of the way. So, all of those things can pound into, one, making it hard to maintain and, two, I think we don't have the capacity that we think we do during you know four to six months out of the year when the snow is reducing it down to a lane and a half in each direction or a lane in each direction.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thanks. Any additional questions? Okay, at this time, we can take a motion, Ms. Becerra.
Alderperson Becerra Thank you Mr. Mayor and I would like to note that at the last committee meeting we amended the motion slightly to include continued engagement with the community. So, for consistency, I'll read that motion. So, I move, that we direct to move forward with the project…. sorry this is convoluted. The motion is to direct staff to move forward with a preferred concept as outlined and continue to engage with the community.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you. The motion is in order. Discussion on the motion? I know Mr. Nugent has, just got, has something to, to say about the motion. Do you want to go first?
Alderperson Mike Nugent I don't know if I want to go first because I don't know what I want to say yet. I, I came into the night only expecting to vote yes, and I support a lot of this project. I think the, the space between the bridge and Sixth Street, specifically I think this will improve it tremendously and make the, the ability to do left turns all day will make traffic flow and we've heard from businesses on that stretch, Betty's Big Dipper, I believe Roxy made a comment at some point and, and that's all really supportive. I am concerned; we've heard a lot of public comment on this and there's, there's pro and there’s con, and that’s normal and healthy, and this is an interesting conversation and it's actually been fun to hear from people. I am concerned and I understand that we don't want to micromanage every project. I am concerned with saying we're moving forward with this, but we don't know the specifics of some of the intersections that we've heard complaints and thoughts about, and saying there's no, there's no more check from Council. I understand the Mayor saying that we've, we've done previous things on Russell that have you know [inaudible] committee with a Council member and kind of report back. So, I'm not yet 100% sure where I'm at on this but that worries me a little bit just because I do think that the community has a lot of questions and I think that a lot of them are fair and valid and we don't have answers our answer is we'll get back to you and so I, I am concerned about that and I just kind of wanted to put that out for conversation.
Mayor Jordan Hess Ms. Vasecka.
Alderperson Vasecka Thanks and I have to agree with my colleague, Mr. Nugent. I, I also am concerned about that, although I do appreciate what you said about how I guess you can't just apply for a grant and then change the plans completely, so, I, I do appreciate that. I do appreciate that statement. I also did want to thank all the staff and everybody who provided their comments. There was a large, extreme from one from either really liking it or really not liking it and their comments were entertaining to say the least and I really do appreciate everybody who did reach out and, and participate in the survey and participate with everybody or everything that was involved in this. And I do want to thank them, the couple here that gave the demonstration on how wide that is. It's always good to have visuals and thank you for coming down. I, I am concerned about this. There's been a lot of pushback about the lane reductions and yes it, it is directly attached to Higgins, I guess, Bear Tracks bridge, but you also have to consider going over Madison Street bridge because it is you come from Brooks and then you do take part of that corridor to go on the Sixth Street, to go to the university, to go to, or to go across the river to get out of town, and it's also probably folks from the Bitterroot to connect to I-90. I mean yeah a lot of people do say oh they're going to take Reserve Street, but a lot of people don't take Reserve Street, they try to avoid it as much as they can. So, there is going to be a lot of increased traffic there and I, I am really concerned about the lane reductions, and I am concerned about the business access. I have done, I went down kind of a rabbit hole for, for this type of project, as well and there have been a lot of recent folks saying across the country whether it be California or New York saying that their businesses definitely were at risk or have shut down because of because of lane reductions and increased pedestrian and bicycle availability. And while we can't get actually know what the future has, I did want to point out that, oh goodness where is it? Oh page 12 on this, sorry about that….So, yes this is about safety but there was a, oh I'm sorry, I pulled up the wrong thing here. There it is. So, it looked like they're yeah well there were a lot of vehicle crashes, there were a lot of sideswiping in vehicles, it looks like there were only, corridor wide, there were 3.7 crashes per year involving someone bicycling and 1.2 crashes per year involving someone walking. And while I don't want to diminish that the, the tragedy of getting, getting in an accident when you're on your bike or walking on the sidewalk or walking on a crosswalk and that must have been traumatizing for both involved, the victim and the person who accidentally hit them, but I don't know if we should do this huge project for that small of a number. And I, I'm uncomfortable saying that because how many is, is the right number but I just I don't think that this is necessary and I'm really uncomfortable, especially with a lot of the comments with the Engage Missoula and a lot of people have reached out to me about this. So, I, I think I am going to have to vote in in their favor, in their favor and unfortunately I do appreciate all the work that you guys have put in this but I, I don't think I can support it.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you. I have a queue of Council members. I'm going to go to Ben Weiss. Ben, Mr. Weiss.
Ben Weiss Thank you Mayor Hess. I wanted just to speak a little bit to Councilperson Nugent's kind of comment/question about how much of this is, is being decided later and I just want to add a little clarification to some of the things that Aaron said. And that when we're talking about what gets figured out and what we're asking for today versus what we're asking to figure out in engineering is we're asking today for a go ahead with this this concept of a three-lane, cross-section with raised bike lanes, keeping as much parking as possible, and you know that the intersections are as safe as possible for, for everyone involved. When we talk about what is to be figured out in engineering, we're talking about a matter of inches and how, how is the, exactly how far does that turn radius stick out. And so, it’s, it's not that we would be revisiting you know, it's not that we don't know how it would work or, or none of the changes we would make would, would change any of the analysis that we've done as far as traffic operations and, and things like that. So, it really, what we're, what we're seeking approval for is to, to move forward with the, the concept as shown, and what the study showed was that it is feasible. There's some minor impacts to vehicular operations at the afternoon rush hour, but that the overall benefits, at least in the way of the adopted policies seem to outweigh those, those trade-offs. And so, we're asking for affirmation that that's true and that and that we can be trusted to figure out you know some of those specific details, again a matter of inches and once we go to engineering.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thanks Mr. Weiss. Next up, I have Ms. Sherrill and then Mr. Contos.
Alderperson Sherrill I, I have a question now and then, then I have comments. So, I, I guess I'll start with the question, is that okay to do that? Since we have new information. Ben, I don't, you were there somewhere, and I don't know if Aaron, you would answer this, but having, having written and had had to implement many grants in the in the past, in my past life. I mean, by the time you write that grant, which that's what we're kind of asking them, them to do. We're saying we agree with the concept, go forward, try to figure out funding, meaning try to get a grant. There's some pretty specific information in there and then you have to do what you said you're going to do, right? So, I mean the, to me the, so that's my question and, and Aaron is nodding and Ben's probably nodding somewhere off in the virtual world, but so you know to me and, and I, I appreciate the questions around what are what's coming back to us and, and you know what are we approving here but we are approving a conceptual design that's going to go with a few more specifics into a grant application and we are going to have to implement that in the way that we have said in order to get that funding, whether it be federal funding or whatever. So, okay that's my first, first thing. My comment, I guess, first is that I, I appreciate everyone's emails, everyone's participation in this, it has been robust, we have had people fairly passionate about both sides of that. I do not believe that this plan is going to solve all of our problems. I don't think anyone is, is saying that, all of our traffic problems in the area, but I do believe it's going to improve public safety and, and I have I have sworn to try to do that and that is what I will continue to do. We did hear from a number of businesses; there was a comment earlier about not hearing from businesses on the strip, the Hip Strip and that, that's inaccurate. Betty's Divine Roxy, Missoula Bicycle Works, I think someone mentioned Big Dipper. I don't know for sure if they Clyde okay, I'm getting some other names here I don't want to name names that I haven't, I don't remember for sure, but I also want to say that I really respect the work of staff and I and experts in this area, which I am not I'm not a transportation person, and that you know you have no vested interest in doing anything other than doing your job well, right? I mean, you're not saying, I can't, I gotta get that left turn lane, like you just want to do your job well. You know, we have tasked staff with developing plans that keep our community safe, and we've tasked them with researching, analyzing, and implementing the best practices in their fields, so, I believe that you've done this. I believe that I am not a traffic engineer and that me knowing if the sidewalk was a couple inches further this way or that way, is, I'm not going to have any valuable information for you to add to your knowledge base on that. You know, so, and I, I, as I said, I think that the grant application is going to have more of those specifics that we need to follow. I, I can imagine this being a really beautiful, well working plan for a downtown that has, as one of the commenters said, has people looking in shop windows, has people walking, has people biking. You know, I think that's great, and I think that's great for our economy, my bigger, my bigger issue is safety and I have lived in this town long enough to know that that area does not feel, feel safe. So, I appreciate all your work on it and I'm going to be voting in favor.
Mayor Jordan Hess Great. Mr. Contos and then Ms. Farmer.
Alderperson Contos Yes, thank you. You know, I have a carpet cleaning business and I drive 350 to 400 miles a week in this town, so I have a pretty good understanding of the traffic flow and since I've lived here since 94, I have steadily seen a decrease in traffic lanes, blowouts, roundabouts, slowdowns. This is a town with cars, and we really need to take that into consideration. I think one of the things that probably bothers me the most with this is this city is growing and we're shrinking streets, that just doesn't make sense to me. This particular area, I drive it quite a bit, it works, it definitely works. As far as the safety aspect of this, I think we've gone a little too far in removing danger from people; they're no longer thinking about danger. We've got people falling off cliffs taking selfies of themselves because the danger has been removed. I think in crossing streets, we gotta look. We have to think about things like this. That particular area, I think to make it look more beautiful than a safety thing, we really need to think about that one. It's functional, it works, it has worked. I’m, I think, and I have read some other things too in in Europe, some European cities where they've done things like this, it's worked well with them, but that's in Europe, we're in the United States and more specifically, we're in Montana where if you want to go somewhere, for the most part, you need a car. If you're going to Bozeman, if you're going to Butte, if you're going to Spokane, you need a car and I've noticed there has been kind of a reduction in cars in this town. In some ways, I think that's, that's fine, I think we've gone too far. I look at the expense of this and yeah there's grants and everything else, but is it really necessary for this particular project? I think the thing that really bothers me the most, I, I was in a networking group the other day and I, I asked a question, you know let me see a show of hands of, of how many people are really not in favor of this Higgin shrinking? Every single hand went up and that surprised me. I think, I think the thing that I'm hearing from other people is the timing of this. We did this bridge, this multi-million dollar bridge, and now we're doing this piece here, and whether the bridge came first or whether the you know, the shrinking of the, the road can't, that's not even an issue. What really upsets people is like wait a minute we just did this bridge and now we're doing this, what in the world's going on? And it creates a mistrust with people. I think since being on City Council that I think one of the biggest things that I've seen or, or feel and sense is, is trying to take care of people. Can you please all the people absolutely not? It's not going to happen, but I think keeping, I, I think trying to build trust with city government and people is important, and I think the timing of this right now is, is not doing that at all.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you, Mr. Contos. We have Ms. Farmer and then Ms. Becerra on, on deck after Ms. Farmer.
Alderperson Farmer Thanks. Yeah, I just wanted to first say thank you to everyone that commented, both in favor and against it. I, frankly, it just made me really proud that so many people are so engaged and paying attention and that we have such an engaged community. I know everyone is feeling kind of afraid with all the changes that are coming. You know, 20 years ago, I used to bob and weave along the Hip Strip over Higgins bridge on my bike to get to my high school job because I could back then; I could do that 20 years ago. Today, I can't do that, and my kids can't do that because Missoula has changed and we have to change with it. You know, I remember talking about malfunction junction changing and the Broadway diet changing, and there was people super upset about that as well and there's probably people in Missoula that don't even remember it any differently today, and we've lived to see it work. So, I think ultimately, I do support this because it is changing in a way that Missoula has to change, and it really is about safety, and one accident is one too many. If that was you know your child getting hit by the car, I think you would feel pretty strongly about that as well. So, I, I do support this. I think that I think that there are going to be a lot of steps along the way that the public could stay more engaged, and I hope that the people that did comment continue to stay engaged with the next step, with the engineering study because we do want to hear from everyone. And this was a hard decision, but I think ultimately we're making the right decision. So, I do support it.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thanks. Ms. Becerra then Ms. Anderson.
Alderperson Becerra Thank you. I have a lot to say about this, but I'm gonna try to keep it short. First and foremost, I think we've heard tonight and throughout the comment period for this project that this is not broken so don't fix it and I can tell you as someone who's lived here for a long time and worked in the field of transportation and planning that we have been hearing about issues along Higgins for a long time. This is not something that started a couple of months ago, so I would say that it is broken because it doesn't safely accommodate all the modes that represent Missoulian’s. It's not safe for, for pedestrians, cyclists and for cars. This is not a bridge issue, the, this is a corridor issue, and the bridge is part of it, so please don't think of it as a bridge diet. This is also not a road diet; it's rather a redistribution of our infrastructure so that we can better serve all parts of our community, all modes of transportation. This is also not a car versus bike issue, it's rather providing safety for all modes of transportation. We have heard, received many comments and I think I spent a good amount of time reading through hundreds of pages, so please don't think that we just don't care because we have, I have used all the comments provided to arrive at an informed decision. In terms of the engineering, I have had the opportunity to sit on many conversations throughout years about the Russell Bridge, Russell Street. There were things that changed even after we set out to fix that stretch of the corridor throughout the years, many of the smaller changes and engineering changes took place after funding was already allocated for it. The same thing with the BUILD Grant, light versus a traffic circle that was determined I believe after or not necessarily when we apply for the grant, the same thing about accommodating bike facilities on Mary Jane Boulevard. So, I don't think it's gonna be any different for the Higgins Avenue corridor, if we're lucky enough to receive the grant, and I guess that brings me to my next point, that this is not the end, that this is not the final step on this process; we are, we, what we're voting on tonight is to direct our staff to go ahead and apply for a grant with this vision and then if we're lucky to get the grant, we can look again at how to fine tune that that vision and I believe that a set of individuals with the right skills will be looking at it very closely, but I, I don't see necessarily. I don't think that we need to be completely excluded from that process, we can certainly get updates and provide our input, as we get information from our staff throughout that process. So, for all those reasons, I will be supporting, and this this preferred alternative and I want to thank everyone who's dedicated so much time throughout a very long time because this didn't just start a few months ago. Thank you.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thanks. Ms. Anderson and then Ms. Jordan next.
Alderperson Anderson Thanks so much. I will try to keep my comments succinct and brief, given the great comments from my fellow Council members. And I think that one of the things that I am struggling with this in this process is the amount of misinformation that is causing people to then make comments on, which you know we have the luxury of having you know staff responding to us, access to emails, tracking it through the process, but you know we've had several people come up and talk about well there was this change.org petition that was sent out, and I read through all of that and it was talking about that there was a 16, we spent 16 million dollars on a bridge and now we're going to completely redo it. And we talked about it in count committee last week about the fact that there was this bridge design that the Montana Department of Transportation took the lead, the city's portion of it was about a tenth of it 1.6 million dollars and that, that bridge was redone for a because it was aging, it was not structurally sound, and the time had come and that the Department of Transportation said okay we are doing this bridge, we are doing it now and they widened it and it's wonderful and it has, as pointed out much larger pedestrian lanes and none of that is changing on that bridge it will still be wide and beautiful. I think what Aaron has said is that at with this plan as it connects to both the north and the south parts of Higgins, it's striping in the middle, so we're not re-building a bridge that we just built. It is and if at 10, 15, 20, 30 years from now this design because of whatever changes that can't be foreseen, it's just striping that changes again. If I got that wrong tell me. Okay thanks I got affirmative nod from….So, it to the points I think other Council members have made, this is not a bridge rehab project. The bridge is just sort of a small portion of the overall corridor that connects and I've given a lot of thought to this because I tracked my how many times I came downtown this last weekend and over the course of Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I drove from my house to downtown four times. And for a variety of different reasons, all of which included spending money downtown, brunch, movies, dinner, things like that and every time I saw somebody walking or biking, I wanted to be like thank you because they created a, they did not take a parking spot that I needed because as somebody on Council once said, it you feels like you practically live in Lolo, which I don't but I'm feeling way the heck out there, just a, you know stone's throw from Lolo so as much as I Peloton to my little heart's content, I'm not gonna be one of the people biking downtown. It's just not gonna happen, I'm sorry Aaron, I know I'm not helping your multi-modal split, I'm gonna get in my car and drive. And so, the more people that we can get from the core of downtown to walk and bike and bus, the more parking spaces it leaves for myself and other people who live farther out of town and I think that that has sort of kind of gotten lost because we are a community of you know predominantly cars and bikers, but there is a method to the madness. When I very first got in Council, one of the things that kept coming up in when I first ran was like why in the world am I paying for Mountain Line when it doesn't even come out here and I was like is an excellent question, I do not know, and I will go find out. It's for the exact reason, it's the more people who you know we help support Mountain Line because it moves people in a much more efficient way, so those of us who drives downtown, the more people are on those buses, the less cars on the road, the less parking spots and the more opportunities for us. And I think that Ms. Jordan and Ms. Sherrill have brought it up that very well and I think it's to be reiterated, that you know we are looking to the experts on this to guide us, to give it you know industry standards. I asked that question last week in committee are the measurements that we're using, the analysis that we're doing, the data that we're inputting….Is it, you know accepted by the Montana Department of Transportation? Is it, like we're not just making this up on the fly because we feel like putting this you know square peg into a round hole and we got comment about well we shouldn't be doing this because we should be focused on housing. Well, I think that the you know what I have learned, and I continue to learn is that the City of Missoula is a very complex, multi-faceted enterprise and at various points in time there are hundreds of projects happening and this just happens to be the one in front of us now. Does it mean that we're not prioritizing housing? It just means that we are trying to you know do you know the folks in the transportation department are doing their job and doing it well to try to work on a transportation corridor that, as Ms. Becerra and Ms. Jones have pointed out have been on the radar for quite some time, and so but the other point that Mr. Wilson brought up tonight is there's going to be an additional 3,000 houses that are expected to come downtown. So, building good infrastructure does also help for housing just like the when we put in for the Build Grant. So, I said more than I intended to. I will stop but I am in support of this because I do think it is multifaceted and, and you know for those of us who drive our cars, you know the more people who are biking and bussing and walking and the safer it is for them it's safer for everybody. I mean this is just to me a win-win on a multi different facets and thank you for your time and expertise and your passion for transportation because I just, I just drive, and you know and I'm glad that there is somebody who thinks about it and is losing sleep over it as our former Mayor used to say. So, thank you so much.
Mayor Jordan Hess Okay. Thank you Ms. Anderson. Ms. Jordan and then Ms. Jones.
Alderperson Kristen Jordan Thank. Aaron, thank you for coming and giving the information, and I am really impressed by the work that you and your and the folks in your department have put into considering options for this particular section of road. I, you know I mentioned before that we, we have received so much comment on this. It's been amazing to me how this is really struck a chord with members of the community and it's, it's great to have the input. I think one thing that you know we've talked about it a little bit already tonight. One thing that it surprises me is how there's been kind of a lack of consideration from some folks who are providing comment about the expertise that it takes to make these decisions and I think that it's really important for folks in Missoula to realize that we're not doing this to move traffic solely. We are doing this for a variety of reasons. We're doing it for safety. It's going to affect some traffic flow. It's going to affect some parking. It's going to also allow for different modalities. It's also going to change the feeling downtown. I feel lucky in that I got to live overseas for a while where they do things differently with traffic and I've seen it work. Just because, it's nothing personal but just because it's not America doesn't mean it won't work here. Roundabouts are fantastic when they're put in the right place. Bike lanes encourage different uses. I lived in a capital city overseas where they shut down about eight city blocks in in the downtown and people lost their collective minds until the dust settled and suddenly you had hundreds of people walking around from shops to shops with multiple parking nearby and ways to get in. There are scooters, there are bike places to lock your bikes up down in this shutdown area, and I just think that this is a really different concept that people in Missoula are not used to seeing and I, I'm really excited by it because I think it's going to really change the flavor in a good way and I think it's also going to allow us as City Council Members to achieve some of our other goals that we have as far as growth and our environmental policies. And you know, on a personal note, when I first moved to Missoula I just having come from a big city overseas, I was so excited to live in a smaller town and go to the Roxy and I, me and a bunch of friends loaded up in my truck and went downtown and I got a parking spot right out front we went into the movie and I came out and my mirror on my driver's side was hanging by wires, and that was a $450.00 fix and because nobody stopped to, to put a note on my car and say sorry the lane was too narrow and I hit your car because I wasn't sticking out. It's a really narrow spot. I didn't report it so my you know my damage to my car is not part of your report, but I just think that there's a lot of different aspects to this project that the average person in Missoula, perhaps isn't considering because it's not just about moving traffic. It's about accommodating a bunch of different uses and I'm really excited to support this and I'm grateful for the work that you guys have done and the science that you put into making a really good decision. So, thank you.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you. Ms. Jones.
Alderperson Jones Thanks. I've got a few comments and I think we've heard a lot of great comments tonight. I want to say thanks everyone for weighing in and I do enjoy hearing people say they're going to be brief and then they go on and on all right….
[unknown speaker] Sorry….
Alderperson Jones It's okay. This is our job; it's fine. So, first of all, I do think there has been a ton of comment on this because this is not Russell Street; this is downtown, and this is the Hip Strip and this is Higgins and Bear Tracks bridge and this is the heart and soul of Missoula. So, I, I get it, there's a lot of engaged people because we love our downtown in Missoula, we come downtown, we use it and if we do this we want to do it right and Russell Street is great but it's, it's just not downtown. So, this is a whole different dynamic and I think it has created a lot of comment and I appreciate people weighing in because this is important, we want to get it right, and for me, it's we….Well let me back up a little bit. When we, my frame of reference is when we made some changes with Fifth and Sixth Street, which is in my Ward and the mandate to staff was, look for years the neighborhood has been saying people are going too fast, it doesn't feel safe, we've got a crash history that is that is troubling at this point, staff what can we do and we mandate to staff to try and figure it out and then they would come back in and check in and we'd talk it through and they'd work on it some more and there's a whole conversation with MDT, that if MDT doesn't like it, it doesn't happen. So, I feel like I am fine with pushing this forward at this point and there could be changes. I don't expect in my mind to want to micromanage it. I know there's if MDT has to bless it and the engineers are always striving for more safety, more efficiency, so how that gets worked out that's fine I know with Fifth and Sixth, after we passed it, I think there were still a few small minor changes that made for a better design. So, that’s, I just wanted to address that issue first of all, but with this one we gave staff the direction of look, this is not a safe corridor, and we need we need safer trans, we need safer passage for all different modalities, being as efficient as possible, having as much parking as possible, and making it work for businesses as best as possible. So, that's a tall order and we send them off and they work for a long, long time on it and gather a huge amount of information and have a lot of engagement and I am happy with the design. And I anticipate it could change and be tweaked and finalized, but that to me is the job of the engineers after we've given them direction to go forward, but for me, this whole issue is truly about safety and I have campaigned twice, I've knocked on doors twice all over my Ward and for years, I've heard people say this is really unsafe. This is not a safe area, can't we do it better, and I take that to heart. I do think we have a lot of folks not biking downtown but in fact driving downtown because we don't have a safe, safe feeling corridor. By changing this to better design, I think we're going to open the doors to more folks riding their bikes downtown and this is not a bikes versus car thing. We want cars downtown and we want cars to park downtown, instead of driving around. We want bikes to get downtown safely, and they are then leaving a parking spot for those who choose to live so far away. So, this is, this is, for me this is the impetus on all of it and we'll figure out the best, the best use of the bridge, the best design that works on either end and MDT is going to weigh in on that too and, and that it all comes back to safety for me. And really, I don't, the, the how should I put this…. the mandate for this has been building slowly from both my Ward and residents within my Ward, as well as businesses on the Hip Strip that I communicate on and on about this with and really when….Well, I would back up. There's a lot of young people in my Ward. I have a high school that has anywhere from 1,100 to 1,300 students when it's in session, the University of Montana thousands of students, a full spectrum of ages in my Ward, but we also have a lot of young folks who frankly are far more focused on climate change than some of the others of us, which is great, and they are riding bikes. They're walking and riding bikes all the more; that's going to increase exponentially, I think every year, as we go forward. It's a reality and I think we as a community need to make sure that those young folks are safe, as they are getting back and forth in this area, and I think it was a couple years ago we had a young woman who was on her bike and was dragged underneath a Suburban for half a block on the Hip Strip. And at that point, I had people in businesses, who own businesses on the Hip Strip say, you're right, we got to do something. And so, it may not have been the best planning sequence with a brand new bridge but sometimes that's the way life unfolds, and I don't ever want to see anybody dragged underneath a Suburban again; we can do better than that. It will mean change, it'll mean shifting, it's going to be a little bit different during rush hour peak times if it takes 51 seconds longer to exit the downtown, that's okay because we're going to have a lot more people walking and biking. So, I want to say thank you to staff. I know you've worked hard on this, and these are hard conversations. I feel confident that we can have a good design that will be improved even more, as you continue your process and it'll be a good change. So, thanks and I’m in support of it.
Mayor Jordan Hess All right, anyone who hasn't spoken yet tonight, want to go? All right, I have Ms. Vasecka and Mr. Nugent. Ms. Vasecka.
Alderperson Vasecka Thanks and I’ll be quick. One of my colleagues mentioned that it is not a road diet, it is a road reconfiguration and I just wanted to respectfully say that yes, this is a road diet because according to the U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Highway Administration a roadway configuration known as a road diet, a classic road diet typically involves converting an existing four-lane undivided roadway segment to a three-lane segment consisting of two through lanes and a center two-way left turn lane. So, I know that the term road diet has brought up a lot of controversy, but I did want to just mention that because I do believe that definitions and words do matter. So, I just wanted to clarify that.
Mayor Jordan Hess Mr. Nugent.
Alderperson Mike Nugent I have no definitions, but Councilwoman Jordan I think that Marty should get award show music and just play us off….. talking too much. I also would just echo Councilman Anderson's comments, I, I will, will not be one of the people biking but I appreciate the opportunity. I do, I say that acknowledging that my father is on this zoom and has biked down Higgins to work almost every day of my life and we live near each other, so I don't know what my excuse is but I'm going to keep on doing it. Aaron and Ben online, I really appreciate all your, your comments and your, the work that's gone into this and you know, I, I definitely trust the process and I think that you've heard people's concerns, you've heard people's questions, and obviously MDT will have to sign off at the end too and I, I think that that's a lot of different sets of experts. Looking at this, the interesting thing about the process and the bridge planning that a couple of my colleagues have referenced is you know I was in the downtown master plan implementation committee years ago before Bear Tracks Bridge was started and there was a lot of disappointment in that room because MDT had said no. So, I mean like this has been part of the planning conversation for quite a while. It's interesting to me that now MDT is saying yes with the administration change, it just, I would not have expected that, I would have almost expected reverse, so I think that's definitely worth noting. I would, I would maybe consider offering an amendment, but I don't think it would pass and I really I want to, I want to acknowledge that I do value your, your work and your input. I have supported this because of the stretch from the bridge to Sixth Street, I think that will make a huge difference I drive that multiple times every day and that part is narrow. Like I said those, left turn lanes, I think will be a vast improvement and I will, I will be supporting it because of that, although I do hear some of the other concerns and you've heard my questions on the Broadway Higgins intersection in Fifth and all of that. I do also understand where a lot of people coming from who are frustrated by it. I think that we've touched on a lot of the process. I do want to clarify or ask a clarifying question to my colleague, Councilwoman Becerra, in your comments, you mentioned that we are voting on the grant tonight, but the process will come back, and I think that you might have swapped those two around. I just want to make sure for the record that people understand that we are voting on basically saying this is what we want the city's priority to be, and they do not have to come back if they get funding.
Mayor Jordan Hess Ms. Becerra.
Alderperson Becerra I said that what we're voting on tonight is directing staff to go ahead and apply for a grant with the alternative that was presented to us and that once a grant is, if we're successful, then we would hear from staff that we were successful, but what we're voting on tonight is saying yes we agree with the preferred alternative and so that in the future, they can go ahead and go after the grant. We're not voting on whether they should apply for the grant tonight.
Alderperson Mike Nugent Yes, because that's got to come back to Council in a couple weeks, correct?
Alderperson Becerra Right. We're voting on the preferred alternative so that they can move to the next step, but we're not voting on the next step….
Alderperson Mike Nugent And I just wanted you to clarify that because based on the kind of questions and what stuff we're having, I don't want anybody to think that there's another opportunity to change the preferred direction…
Alderperson Becerra I believe we're hearing that in a couple of weeks …..
Alderperson Mike Nugent For just the grant application?
Alderperson Becerra Yeah.
Alderperson Mike Nugent So, I mean, I just wanted to make sure that anybody who's paying attention didn't take a different message from that. You know, I've been on the downtown master plan implementation committee for years and I, I appreciate the work and I, I love all the work that goes into downtown, I'm very proud of, of our downtown. You know, I do understand the perception out there that some people feel like sometimes downtown gets more attention than other parts of our community and whether that's true or not, I think sometimes we need to be aware of that perception and make sure that the other kind of pain points that we've talked about like the, the neighborhood at the end of Scott Street where we're putting so many new houses in, the River Road area, you know out Mullan you know we are giving attention to those two and I believe it was Councilwoman Anderson that I think that said, you know it's this is just the thing we're talking about right now but there are lots of things going on. You know, and so, I think that as we prioritize things moving forward I think some of that's worth discussing because we are going to put a lot of housing in other areas too and while I do think a better road grid downtown that includes you know the front main conversion stuff like that helps downtown, every housing unit we're going to put in downtown, we could put in whether we do this project or not. And so, I think that we just need to acknowledge that it makes it better, but I don't think it's the, the linchpin the same way that the build grant was, and I think that that is worth, worth mentioning, but I really do appreciate all your work. I have actually been impressed with the effort you all have made to get public comment. I know it can be frustrating when you do that and, and for whatever reason people don't hear it and then they find out about it later and then we're kind of having these conversations at the last minute. I, I kind of compare it to running a business with a lot of employees and sending out an email with important information and nobody reads it, we sent it, and I understand that that's frustrating. So, I, I do want to thank you. I want to thank staff for, for all your time and I will be supporting this, but I do want to say that people should keep giving comments because obviously the engineering process is, is forthcoming, so.
Mayor Jordan Hess Thank you. Ms. Rehbein, we can have a roll call vote on the motion.
Mayor Jordan Hess And the motion passes, thank you Ms. Rehbein. We have no additional items of committee reports and we can go back to our items of final consideration. Without objection, let's take a, a quick recess and be back in order at 8:50 p.m.